From: "Stefan Llewellyn Smith" <sgls@ucsd.edu>
Path: news.mathworks.com!newsfeed-00.mathworks.com!webcrossing
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.matlab
Subject: Re: Matlab 7.4 OSX
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Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 12:09:24 -0400
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Thank you for the response. What I am going to say is relevant only
to my use of matlab; I can't speak for anyone else.

I usually run matlab as a CLI from a window using -nojvm. It's what I
prefer. I use the full environment only for specific toolboxes which
require Java.

The critical thing about X11 is its ubiquity in general unix/linux
systems. I use a number of different machines (unix/linux) and this
way wherever I happen to be I can run matlab remotely (ssh -Y) on the
main OS X machine.

I know I can run matlab remotely without X and save figures in pdf
etc..., but that's just not efficient.

Sophisticated Leopard screen sharing might be extremely nice if I'm
on another Mac with it installed, but is not so generic. I admit I
don't fully understand what is being offered (I didn't watch the
video).

I'm not sure I understand the concerns users have with X11, for
example loss of productivity. Once matlab is running, figures are
figures and windows are windows. Is it purely installing X11? That
only needs to be done once and I would have thought most matlab users
would not find it difficult. I can see how the concerns about dual
X11/Mac development, but the entire linux matlab is X11-based so I
suppose it depends on where one makes a division between the two
platforms: above or below X11.

Hope this helps.

    Stefan

Brian Arnold wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I appreciate this thread, keep your comments coming.
>
> I'd like to clarify one thing: we will continue to support the CLI
> interface on OS X and remote connections to and from OS X servers
> and
> clients. This is also critical for MATLAB on the Mac platform
> working
> with Distributed Computing Toolbox (which runs -nodisplay).
>
> What's not as clear is the role of X11 interfaces on the Mac, and
> why
> X11 is so important to some customers. We continue to receive
> overwhelming feedback regarding how "non-native" the X11-based UIs
> are,
> how poor the integration is with the rest of the OS, and customer
> dissatisfaction and loss of productivity. As a result, the highest
>
> priority for MathWorks Mac developers is to improve the user
> experience
> and integration on the Mac platform.
>
> If you simply can't live without an X11 connection, what is it
> about
> MATLAB in X11 in particular that is critical to your workflow, and
> what
> are the most important things that are currently missing with the
> Mac
> X11 connection? Be very specific.
>
> For Tiger (OS X 10.4), you could enable fast user switching and
> running
> a multi-user VNC host, such as Vine Server. So, users who only
> needs
> the CLI can use a low-bandwidth rsh or ssh connection, while users
> who
> need to take advantage of MATLAB Desktop features or Toolbox UIs
> (such
> as SimBiology) can connect to your server using a VNC client (such
> as
> Chicken of the VNC), and have their own virtual desktop (not the
> logged-in user's), with full desktop integration. This seems to me
> like
> a much friendlier alternative to X11, and lets users -nojvm with
> R2007a
> as well. Is this a viable alternative for some of you?
>
> Apple's remote desktop energy in Leopard (OS X 10.5) is currently
> focused on integrated screen sharing from the Finder, and "Back to
> my
> Mac" for anywhere-access to a Mac, which Steve Jobs made public
> during
> his Apple WWDC 2007 keynote presentation. These are other
> alternatives
> that you may choose to support on your servers as well, once
> Leopard
> becomes available.
>
> You can find out more about the integrated screen sharing and "Back
> to
> my Mac" here:
>
> < <http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/features/finder.html> >
> < <http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/wwdc07/> >
>
> So, we could be giving customers a significantly better native Mac
> experience if we supported MATLAB UIs more natively, and we could
> be
> taking advantage of Apple innovations as well. To work towards
> both a
> native Mac experience and an X11 experience would require us to
> split
> our very limited Mac resources, and further delay our progress. Is
> that
> really desirable, or are there other alternatives?
>
> Let me know your thoughts,
>
> - Brian
>
> Brian Arnold
> Mac Developer
> The MathWorks, Inc.
>
> Timothy O'Keefe wrote:
>> Agreed.
>>
>> I'm not necessarily concerned about being able to render
X-window
>> graphics on OSX, but I'm pretty sure others do rely on this. I
>> already think it's bad that you can open a remote Matlab IDE on
> OSX
>> as you can on Linux, but I know what a pain X11 is.
>>
>> On a more personal note, I would be extremely upset if
MathWorks
>> moved to completely abandon the CLI interface *overall* within
> OSX's
>> Matlab. What am I going to do with this Mac cluster now? Serve
>> websites? ;)
>>
>