From: "Jeffrey Erlich" <jerlich@NOprincetonSPAM.edu>
Path: news.mathworks.com!newsfeed-00.mathworks.com!webcrossing
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.matlab
Subject: Re: Matlab 7.4 OSX
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Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 13:55:39 -0400
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Dear Brian,

We want our cake and to eat it too.

If we are sitting in front of our mac , we want matlab to be pretty
and OS friendly. On the other hand giving up X11 loses much of the
functionality that we have come to depend on.

For example, on Linux, a single powerful server/workstation can run
multiple copies of matlab simultaneously. I can log in start a
matlab job and log out, and not have to worry about other users
logging in to the machine. Then i can log back in, display some
figures to see the progress of the job and log back out.

This is the functionality I want with OSX also.

But I think this tension is not specific to MATLAB. It is a general
problem with the OSX. For example, I have a mysql server running on
osx. There are nice gui tools that work when I'm sitting in front of
my mac, but these tools do not work over X11 (Although, the linux
versions of the tools do). If I'm sitting at a computer at another
university, I might not have permission to install the tools locally.
 

Would it be possible to change the graphics calls depending on
whether is ia console or remote user? So we can have our cake and
eat it too?

Another possibility is a flag at startup that tells matlab to run in
X11 mode or aqua mode. With X11 being the default mode, and the aqua
mode being set through Matlab.app

-Jeffrey Erlich

 Brian Arnold wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I appreciate this thread, keep your comments coming.
>
> I'd like to clarify one thing: we will continue to support the CLI
> interface on OS X and remote connections to and from OS X servers
> and
> clients. This is also critical for MATLAB on the Mac platform
> working
> with Distributed Computing Toolbox (which runs -nodisplay).
>
> What's not as clear is the role of X11 interfaces on the Mac, and
> why
> X11 is so important to some customers. We continue to receive
> overwhelming feedback regarding how "non-native" the X11-based UIs
> are,
> how poor the integration is with the rest of the OS, and customer
> dissatisfaction and loss of productivity. As a result, the highest
>
> priority for MathWorks Mac developers is to improve the user
> experience
> and integration on the Mac platform.
>
> If you simply can't live without an X11 connection, what is it
> about
> MATLAB in X11 in particular that is critical to your workflow, and
> what
> are the most important things that are currently missing with the
> Mac
> X11 connection? Be very specific.
>
> For Tiger (OS X 10.4), you could enable fast user switching and
> running
> a multi-user VNC host, such as Vine Server. So, users who only
> needs
> the CLI can use a low-bandwidth rsh or ssh connection, while users
> who
> need to take advantage of MATLAB Desktop features or Toolbox UIs
> (such
> as SimBiology) can connect to your server using a VNC client (such
> as
> Chicken of the VNC), and have their own virtual desktop (not the
> logged-in user's), with full desktop integration. This seems to me
> like
> a much friendlier alternative to X11, and lets users -nojvm with
> R2007a
> as well. Is this a viable alternative for some of you?
>
> Apple's remote desktop energy in Leopard (OS X 10.5) is currently
> focused on integrated screen sharing from the Finder, and "Back to
> my
> Mac" for anywhere-access to a Mac, which Steve Jobs made public
> during
> his Apple WWDC 2007 keynote presentation. These are other
> alternatives
> that you may choose to support on your servers as well, once
> Leopard
> becomes available.
>
> You can find out more about the integrated screen sharing and "Back
> to
> my Mac" here:
>
> < <http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/features/finder.html> >
> < <http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/wwdc07/> >
>
> So, we could be giving customers a significantly better native Mac
> experience if we supported MATLAB UIs more natively, and we could
> be
> taking advantage of Apple innovations as well. To work towards
> both a
> native Mac experience and an X11 experience would require us to
> split
> our very limited Mac resources, and further delay our progress. Is
> that
> really desirable, or are there other alternatives?
>
> Let me know your thoughts,
>
> - Brian
>
> Brian Arnold
> Mac Developer
> The MathWorks, Inc.
>
> Timothy O'Keefe wrote:
>> Agreed.
>>
>> I'm not necessarily concerned about being able to render
X-window
>> graphics on OSX, but I'm pretty sure others do rely on this. I
>> already think it's bad that you can open a remote Matlab IDE on
> OSX
>> as you can on Linux, but I know what a pain X11 is.
>>
>> On a more personal note, I would be extremely upset if
MathWorks
>> moved to completely abandon the CLI interface *overall* within
> OSX's
>> Matlab. What am I going to do with this Mac cluster now? Serve
>> websites? ;)
>>
>