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Thread Subject:
New Newsreader application at MATLAB Central

Subject: New Newsreader application at MATLAB Central

From: Helen Chen

Date: 11 Jul, 2007 03:04:35

Message: 1 of 27

Hello MATLAB Central Community Members –

I am please to announce that MATLAB Central has a new Newsreader available for your use. This entirely new application was built and is hosted by the MathWorks, Inc. Access this application by going to MATLAB Central and clicking on Newsgroup or by going http://www.mathworks.com/matlabcentral/newsreader/.

The new newsreader has many new features including:

- Ability to filter discussion content by a variety of different time periods: all, 7 days, 30 days, last year.
- Ability to track discussion threads using your own personal “watch lists”
- Ability to organize threads by "tagging" with a word or phrase that are meaningful to you
- Ability to select content for viewing using single or multiple tags
- Ability to select content by author
- Ability to set—up RSS feeds to have your site updates delivered to your desktop using your favorite RSS feed reader.
- Decreased newsgroup spam (due to required login to your MathWorks Account)

Please log in in order to post or to tag. You will be prompted to add a Newsreader email address to your community profile before your first post or tag. Click on the "Post a Message" button to send a new message. If you are reading a message and want to reply, click on the "Reply to this message" link. To tag, simply enter your tags in the Tag block.

For more tips on using our new Newsreader application, see the FAQ at http://matlabwiki.mathworks.com/Using_Newreader_and_Tagging.

Send your questions, comments or feedback to us either via the newsgroup or to newsreader@mathworks.com.

See you online!
Helen Chen and the MATLAB Central Team

Subject: New Newsreader application at MATLAB Central

From: dave

Date: 11 Jul, 2007 06:46:26

Message: 2 of 27

Helen Chen wrote:
>
>
> Hello MATLAB Central Community Members –
>
> I am please to announce that MATLAB Central has a new Newsreader
> available for your use. This entirely new application was built and
> is hosted by the MathWorks, Inc. Access this application by going
> to MATLAB Central and clicking on Newsgroup or by going <http://www.mathworks.com/matlabcentral/newsreader/>.
>
>
> he new newsreader has many new features including:
>
> - Ability to filter discussion content by a variety of different
> time periods: all, 7 days, 30 days, last year.
> - Ability to track discussion threads using your own personal
> “watch lists”
> - Ability to organize threads by "tagging" with a word or phrase
> that are meaningful to you
> - Ability to select content for viewing using single or multiple
> tags
> - Ability to select content by author
> - Ability to set—up RSS feeds to have your site updates
> delivered to your desktop using your favorite RSS feed reader.
> - Decreased newsgroup spam (due to required login to your MathWorks
> Account)
>
> Please log in in order to post or to tag. You will be prompted to
> add a Newsreader email address to your community profile before
> your first post or tag. Click on the "Post a Message" button to
> send a new message. If you are reading a message and want to reply,
> click on the "Reply to this message" link. To tag, simply enter
> your tags in the Tag block.
>
> For more tips on using our new Newsreader application, see the FAQ
> at <http://matlabwiki.mathworks.com/Using_Newreader_and_Tagging>.
>
> Send your questions, comments or feedback to us either via the
> newsgroup or to newsreader@mathworks.com.
>
> See you online!
> Helen Chen and the MATLAB Central Team
>
>
  
ok, lets try it here... i got errors when trying to reply to this
message, or when trying to post a new message on the new app.

My suggestion on the new app is to try to get the subject wider.
maybe wrap the date and narrow down some of the other columns so the
subjects don't wrap as much. having them scrunched up like they are
now makes them hard to read and means more scrolling to view the page.

Subject: New Newsreader application at MATLAB Central

From: Helen Chen

Date: 11 Jul, 2007 11:40:47

Message: 3 of 27

Thanks, Dave!

Can you give me more detail on what type of error you received when posting/replying?

Helen

Subject: New Newsreader application at MATLAB Central

From: John D'Errico

Date: 11 Jul, 2007 12:31:21

Message: 4 of 27

One very useful feature of the new newsreader is the
"flag as spam" link for posts. I think its currently set
so that when 5 different readers all flag a post as
spam, then that post is expunged.

So as users of the group, this allows us to help
reduce the clutter. Spend a minute or so of your
time to help clear up the spam.

Thanks,
John

Subject: New Newsreader application at MATLAB Central

From: Yair Altman

Date: 11 Jul, 2007 08:47:27

Message: 5 of 27

Nice work on the functionality, Helen & team. The spam solution is a
good compromise between conflicting requirements, IMHO.

However, a critically important feature of any newsreader, that was
available in the old newsreader but not the new one, is the ability
to obfuscate the poster's real email address, in order to prevent
spam from internet email harvesters. I sign as
altmanyDEL@gmailDEL.comDEL (and others have similar methods) so that
automated harvesters will not get my email, whereas human users
would. Until the new newsreader enables this, I will be forced to
keep using the old one for my posts.

Kudos again for the initiative and effort.

Yair Altman

Subject: New Newsreader application at MATLAB Central

From: dave

Date: 11 Jul, 2007 09:08:41

Message: 6 of 27

Helen Chen wrote:
>
>
> Thanks, Dave!
>
> Can you give me more detail on what type of error you received when
> posting/replying?
>
> Helen
>
  
it just went to a page that said 'an error has occured' and said that
you have been notified... so i assume it put something in a log
somewhere. my 2 attempts were within 5 or 10 minutes of the
successful one through the old reader.

Subject: New Newsreader application at MATLAB Central

From: David

Date: 11 Jul, 2007 13:09:13

Message: 7 of 27

test again from the new newsreader page.

Subject: New Newsreader application at MATLAB Central

From: David

Date: 11 Jul, 2007 13:12:07

Message: 8 of 27

ok, that time it worked... i think the only difference was that i didn't check the box to add the thread to my watch list. so this time i'll check that option. all my tries have set the email me option to 'never'... personally i would prefer that to be the default.

Subject: New Newsreader application at MATLAB Central

From: Steve Amphlett

Date: 11 Jul, 2007 13:18:23

Message: 9 of 27

I can't see any of the text I'm repyling to and no obvious "quote" button. This is my first post so I wonder how it'll look.

Subject: New Newsreader application at MATLAB Central

From: John D'Errico

Date: 11 Jul, 2007 13:38:18

Message: 10 of 27

> I can't see any of the text I'm repyling to and no obvious "quote" button. This is my first post so I wonder how it'll look.

Steve,

I've been pushing to allow quotes back in. I think they are
quite important for reference. The only way to quote at this
moment is to copy and paste it in. I have done that when
I felt it important.

John

Subject: New Newsreader application at MATLAB Central

From: Helen Chen

Date: 11 Jul, 2007 13:44:07

Message: 11 of 27

<steve said... >
I can't see any of the text I'm repyling to and no obvious "quote" button. This is my first post so I wonder how it'll look. </steve>

You are right that there is no quoting functionality in the current newsreader. The design objective was to try to reduce message clutter in threads.

What you can do is, right click on the reply button and open up the reply window separately. You can easily copy and paste any piece of the original message into the new window.

hths,
Helen

Subject: New Newsreader application at MATLAB Central

From: dpb

Date: 11 Jul, 2007 08:51:46

Message: 12 of 27

Helen Chen wrote:
> <steve said... >
> I can't see any of the text I'm repyling to and no obvious "quote"
button. This is my first post so I wonder how it'll look. </steve>
>
> You are right that there is no quoting functionality in the current
newsreader. The design objective was to try to reduce message clutter in
threads.
>
> What you can do is, right click on the reply button and open up the
reply window separately. You can easily copy and paste any piece of the
original message into the new window.

I keep wondering why reinvent the wheel and not just use a standard
newsreader?

--

Subject: New Newsreader application at MATLAB Central

From: Steve Amphlett

Date: 11 Jul, 2007 13:58:32

Message: 13 of 27


"I keep wondering why reinvent the wheel and not just use a standard
newsreader?"

Simple answer. I cannot use a "standard" newsreader at work. And I do not have Matlab at home. If I want to post tested code I have to do it at work.

Subject: New Newsreader application at MATLAB Central

From: Heinrich Acker

Date: 11 Jul, 2007 15:13:04

Message: 14 of 27

Overall a nice improvement. One problem I see is that being spam is a property of a thread, not a post. I wonder if the spammers will do us the favor. In the past, there were several very popular threads that became spammed, a method obviously better from the perspective of the spammer, as the popular topic appears in the subject list.

Heinrich

Subject: New Newsreader application at MATLAB Central

From: Doug Schwarz

Date: 11 Jul, 2007 16:19:01

Message: 15 of 27

In article <f72ohe$sho$1@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>,
 roberson@ibd.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca (Walter Roberson) wrote:

> In article <f72mr7$bs0$1@fred.mathworks.com>,
> Helen Chen <helen.chen@mathworks.com> wrote:
>
> >You are right that there is no quoting functionality in the current
> >newsreader. The design objective was to try to reduce message clutter in
> >threads.
>
> Then someone got the wrong design objective. That design objective
> might perhaps be okay in something like a vBulletin forum, inherently
> graphical, but proper quoting is ESSENTIAL in Usenet discussions,
> which are asynchronous -text- entities of inconsistent delivery
> and inconsistent retention. If the goal was to design something for
> use only with messages that stay on one site, then the designers
> may do whatever they think will "work" for the site, but if the goal
> is to produce messages gatewayed to Usenet, then the quoting must be
> not just possible, and not just practical: it must be the default.

[snip]

> I note, by the way, that what I quoted is all one long line, not
> two lines, as was the quote from the poster you were replying to.
> That suggests that the online reader is doing visible word wrap
> but that that word wrap is not being translated into newlines when
> the message is sent out to Usenet. The result will likely often
> be in technical violation of the NNTP RFCs, which place a limit
> (not particularily high) on the number of characters permitted per line.
> NNTP servers which detect longer lines are, under the RFCs,
> justified in rejecting the message as being technically non-conforming,
> just as much as if it were missing essential headers.


I was just about to address exactly these two issues so thank you Walter
for doing it for me.

I completely agree -- quoting is absolutely essential and must be the
default. While we're at it, how about putting the cursor at the end of
the quoted material so as to discourage top posting?

Note the way my newsreader does quoting above (I am not using the new
interface).

--
Doug Schwarz
dmschwarz&ieee,org
Make obvious changes to get real email address.

Subject: New Newsreader application at MATLAB Central

From: Urs (us) Schwarz

Date: 11 Jul, 2007 16:50:29

Message: 16 of 27

<SNIP

Subject: New Newsreader application at MATLAB Central

From: Dan Hensley

Date: 11 Jul, 2007 13:49:09

Message: 17 of 27

On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 16:19:01 +0000, Doug Schwarz wrote:

>
> I completely agree -- quoting is absolutely essential and must be the
> default. While we're at it, how about putting the cursor at the end of
> the quoted material so as to discourage top posting?

Better yet, right after the 1st paragraph, to discourage bottom posting
without snipping.

Dan

Subject: New Newsreader application at MATLAB Central

From: Helen Chen

Date: 11 Jul, 2007 19:38:25

Message: 18 of 27

<snip>
One problem I see is that being spam is a property of a thread, not a post. I wonder if the spammers will do us the favor. In the past, there were several very popular threads that became spammed, a method obviously better from the perspective of the spammer, as the popular topic appears in the subject list.
</snip>

If you use the option to flag as spam on a post, this message and all subsequent messages in this branch are hidden from view. The rest of the message tree is untouched.

Regards,
Helen

Subject: New Newsreader application at MATLAB Central

From: Yair Altman

Date: 11 Jul, 2007 17:12:44

Message: 19 of 27

I just noticed that posts done using the new interface are apparently
not listed on the usenet (good-ol' CSSM). If I'm right, then perhaps
TMW is trying to move away from usenet and into a proprietary forum
format. I'm not saying that's bad, but some users might have strong
feelings about it, so FYI. In any case, if my finding is correct then
I think TMW should state this clearly and openly.

Then again, I may be wrong. If so, apologies in advance.

Yair Altman
 <http://www.ymasoftware.com>

Subject: New Newsreader application at MATLAB Central

From: Yair Altman

Date: 11 Jul, 2007 21:34:59

Message: 20 of 27

<snip>
a critically important feature of any newsreader, that was
available in the old newsreader but not the new one, is the ability to obfuscate the poster's real email address, in order to prevent spam from internet email harvesters.
</snip>

My bad - the community profile page now has separate fields for community email (used for File Exchange etc. I guess) and a newsgroup email (used here). This is just what I was missing. I just added the obfuscated email in there, et voila! Assuming my real community email remains hidden from automated eyes, I'm pleased.

Yair Altman

Subject: New Newsreader application at MATLAB Central

From: Helen Chen

Date: 11 Jul, 2007 21:50:03

Message: 21 of 27

Yair -

Which server are you looking at cssm? I can see this thread at Google Groups. http://groups.google.com/group/comp.soft-sys.matlab/browse_thread/thread/5d3c4fd205ba57d9/b508c383a89fcff4#b508c383a89fcff4

Helen

Subject: New Newsreader application at MATLAB Central

From: Michael Wild

Date: 12 Jul, 2007 00:09:11

Message: 22 of 27

Yair Altman wrote:
> I just noticed that posts done using the new interface are apparently
> not listed on the usenet (good-ol' CSSM).

Hu? I seem to receive all the posts here...

> If I'm right, then perhaps
> TMW is trying to move away from usenet and into a proprietary forum
> format. I'm not saying that's bad, but some users might have strong
> feelings about it, so FYI.

Yep, you can bet on that. I for one wouldn't be very pleased...

[...]


michael

Subject: New Newsreader application at MATLAB Central

From: us

Date: 11 Jul, 2007 22:59:46

Message: 23 of 27

<SNIP

Subject: New Newsreader application at MATLAB Central

From: Yair Altman

Date: 12 Jul, 2007 02:46:56

Message: 24 of 27

Michael Wild wrote:
>
> Yair Altman wrote:
>> I just noticed that posts done using the new interface
>> are apparently not listed on the usenet (good-ol' CSSM).
>
> Hu? I seem to receive all the posts here...

Here are examples of entire threads that I could not find on Google
Groups, nor the old newsreader app:

 <http://www.mathworks.com/matlabcentral/newsreader/view_thread/152087>
 <http://www.mathworks.com/matlabcentral/newsreader/view_thread/152104>

and here's an example of a post that only appeared on the new app,
whereas Steve Lord's answer also appeared on CSSM (I could not find
the original post on CSSM, only on the new app):

 <http://www.mathworks.com/matlabcentral/newsreader/view_thread/152100>

Another clear example: compare the number of replies seen for this
thread on the new app (22 by now) with those on Google (18) or the
old app (16).

There are numerous other examples. None of my posts submitted using
the new app appear on Google Groups. Maybe Google Groups started
having hickups, but for some reason I doubt it... I'm posting this
one on the old app, so everyone will get it...

Yair Altman

Subject: New Newsreader application at MATLAB Central

From: Michael Wild

Date: 12 Jul, 2007 09:13:33

Message: 25 of 27

Yair Altman wrote:
> Michael Wild wrote:
>> Yair Altman wrote:
>>> I just noticed that posts done using the new interface
>>> are apparently not listed on the usenet (good-ol' CSSM).
>> Hu? I seem to receive all the posts here...
>
[snip ample proof]

that's really strange! some of the posts seem to appear, some don't!
take this thread: some of the posts i see here in my newsreader
(thunderbird) are clearly from the new app. before this post, it was 19
entries long. that's the same as google tells me. but the new app tells
me there are 24 of them!

you're right, something's fishy... or rather buggy.



michael

Subject: New Newsreader application at MATLAB Central

From: French Caro

Date: 12 Jul, 2007 08:58:07

Message: 26 of 27

Good job!

Just one question :
Could it be possible to falg as spam without opening the post ?
Usually the title is sufficient to know that a post is a spam (as for the current www.nike... by jin wu).
Even if we all want to see those posts disappear, who has the patience to open all to flag as spam ?

Just an idea...

Caroline

Subject: New Newsreader application at MATLAB Central

From: Helen Chen

Date: 18 Jul, 2007 15:47:14

Message: 27 of 27

<snip> Could it be possible to falg as spam without opening the post ? </snip>

Good idea! We have added this to the list of requested enhancements.

Thanks for the feedback,
Helen

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