Thread Subject: Is the "newbie" tag helpful or pejorative?

This newsgroup is a valuable resource for everyone who uses
MATLAB, whether they are experienced or not. But it is
sometimes useful to know the experience level of the person
posing a given question, especially if that experience level
is very low.

I wonder if we can find a tag (like "newbie" or some other
such word) that is not stigmatizing and allows people to
flag themselves as new users who need a little more coaching.

Clearly it's not good for people to be spoon-fed solutions
to their homework. But there is a place for gently assisted
learning. Some people enjoy doing this kind of coaching, and
some do not. By attaching an appropriate tag to a post, we
might minimize the interactions between those seeking
elementary help and those who prefer assisting people with
more advanced skills. Then again, such a tag might be seen
as pejorative and not be very useful after all.

Thoughts?

Ned Gulley
gulley@mathworks.com

On Feb 13, 3:50 pm, "Ned Gulley" <gul...@mathworks.com> wrote:
> This newsgroup is a valuable resource for everyone who uses
> MATLAB, whether they are experienced or not. But it is
> sometimes useful to know the experience level of the person
> posing a given question, especially if that experience level
> is very low.
>
> I wonder if we can find a tag (like "newbie" or some other
> such word) that is not stigmatizing and allows people to
> flag themselves as new users who need a little more coaching.
>
> Clearly it's not good for people to be spoon-fed solutions
> to their homework. But there is a place for gently assisted
> learning. Some people enjoy doing this kind of coaching, and
> some do not. By attaching an appropriate tag to a post, we
> might minimize the interactions between those seeking
> elementary help and those who prefer assisting people with
> more advanced skills. Then again, such a tag might be seen
> as pejorative and not be very useful after all.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Ned Gulley
> gul...@mathworks.com

It doesn't take much to parse a message and get the measure of a
poster's experience level. My personal HELP/IGNORE switch is thrown
not on the experience level, but on the thought put into the post
prior to and while posting. If (help me pleeeeeeeeeese | solve my
homework for meeeeeee) then IGNORE elseif (trying to figure this out
and this is what I've done) then HELP ... sorta thing.

I believe that regardless of the years using this product, there are
areas where anyone can be considered a newbie.

Plus tags aren't visible in google groups.

-Chris

"Ned Gulley" <gulley@mathworks.com> wrote in message <fovs7m$l59
$1@fred.mathworks.com>...
> This newsgroup is a valuable resource for everyone who uses
> MATLAB, whether they are experienced or not. But it is
> sometimes useful to know the experience level of the person
> posing a given question, especially if that experience level
> is very low.
>
> I wonder if we can find a tag (like "newbie" or some other
> such word) that is not stigmatizing and allows people to
> flag themselves as new users who need a little more coaching.
>
> Clearly it's not good for people to be spoon-fed solutions
> to their homework. But there is a place for gently assisted
> learning. Some people enjoy doing this kind of coaching, and
> some do not. By attaching an appropriate tag to a post, we
> might minimize the interactions between those seeking
> elementary help and those who prefer assisting people with
> more advanced skills. Then again, such a tag might be seen
> as pejorative and not be very useful after all.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Ned Gulley
> gulley@mathworks.com
----------
  Speaking as one who occasionally endeavors to assist others in this
newsgroup, I grant you, Ned, that it would be "useful to know the experience
level of the person posing a given question." However, I question the
usefulness of a formal tag for this purpose. As you suggest, tags can quickly
become pejorative. For example, the term, 'newbie', that you used always
makes me frown (just for an instant.)

  In my opinion it would be best to introduce one's question with a short,
straightforward statement about one's inexperience with matlab in decent
English. After all, we've all been newcomers to matlab at some time in the
past. Also if the person needs help with homework, it is far better to say so
directly. Oftentimes a person offering help will then attempt to give an
answer that shows the principles involved without the "spoon-feeding" you
refer to. If an attempt is made to conceal the fact of its being homework, that
often results in unkind remarks and little or no useful help.

  There are of course a number of other things that should be avoided by
those seeking help. Subjects that are typed in glaring capital letters, that are
accompanied by numerous exclamation marks, or that contain begging such
as "Plz, plz, plz, help me, help me, help me" have a high probability of
incurring the wrath of prospective helpers.

  At a deeper level, a request that reveals a lack of careful thought or that
presents an insufficient amount of explanation about what is being asked, is
also quite annoying, and this is something that happens all too often in this
newsgroup. It frequently results in numerous questions in return for
clarification about what is being asked, and typically there is finally the
admission on the part of the questioner, "Well actually I didn't mean just that
- I really meant this ...." It really shouldn't be necessary to go round and
round in long drawn-out discussions just for the purpose of straightening out
requests, if a question is carefully posed in the first place. The person asking
advice needs to carefully look at matters from the point of view of someone
trying to help, if they hope to get good advice. There is the poignant saying,
"Garbage in - garbage out."

Roger Stafford